rikke_leonhart: Owl (Arashi - Ohno Monster)
[personal profile] rikke_leonhart
To all the fic writing/reading part of fandom(s)! No matter if you're writing or just enjoying reading!


So let's go straight to it. It's discussion time!

Point of discussion #1
Porn. No well, sort of. Actually, it's about contraception in fics. I think about it every time I read a fic and every time I write about it - do you guys care whether or not the guys use condoms? I mean, if I'm reading a getting together fic (which, honestly, every fandom in existence has a truckload of) it irks me if the guys don't use condoms (of course, requiring the fic is set in a time where they actually exist). I know that some people have not using contraception as a kink, and it can work for me in some specific settings, but generally, I like my smut realistic. Also, pregnancy and STDs are not attractive. I just feel that generally in fics it is a bit of an overlooked aspect, and I am a little torn between thinking that either people don't care about it, they lack sex ed or they just like it in fics.

Can anyone enlighten me? Do people genuinely not know how blowjobs can also give STDs, how girls can still get pregnant even if the guy pulls out before orgasm? (Not that I read much het fic xD). And the blowjob issue does raise (har har) another question: do you guys find it sexy even if they use a condom for oral sex? I am all for no condom if all participants have been tested for STDs more than once, but again, do you care about it or is it just "it's fic, don't be so serious"? I genuinely don't know, I'm not shaming anyone who has unprotected sex as a kink, to each their own, I'm just really, really curious. And also, unsanitary issues, I'm a bit of a freak with that, but I do try to tone it down, I realize I'm a bit extreme in that aspect.

Also PWP vs. classy porn aka. porn with feelings?

Also, for those of you who write smut - whenever you use the word "hard" unrelated to sex, do you pause and consider if there is another word? My BFF does, I'm really amused xD Mature, I know. So some of the words really do have different connotations now. Do you have any of those words?

ETA: Oh, what do you know, I'm actually sort of thinking about relevant topics this time!

Point of discussion #2
OOC in fics.

RPF is a bit of a grey area, isn't it? Let's face it, no matter how much we may feel that we know the persons, they remain characters on our pages, we have no way of knowing how they react in certain situations, we can only imagine. I think it's easier with fictional characters, they don't entirely contain the same unknown factor as RPF does, but how do you guard yourself against the worst OOC? Subjectively, yes. I mean, I think we all agree than dimwit!Ohno, airhead!Aiba, Keio!Sho, fashion-guru-bitchy!Jun and cheapskate/brat!Nino have been done to death. Yes, certain elements might be there, but the exaggerated stereotypical roles are one dimensional and boring, and while, again, it's completely subjective, I would hope that multi-faceted, fully developed characters are better received and appreciated than flat characters. I'm not saying that my portrayal of the characters is precise, because my stuff has been pretty OOC at times, but I strive to make them fit as well as I can to the picture I have of them in my mind. It's a tightrope, sometimes, admittedly, because what I may think about them might not accurately come across with words - do they fall flat when I try to write them? Do other people read them completely differently to how I intended it?

How do you best like the boys as characters?

I do my best. Also, it helps me to think of them as characters. I am a bit squicky in general about RPF/RPS, but really, we don't know they are. We know what they are - they are idols, they are singers, actors, goof balls by profession, but who they are? I have no clue. I just try my best.

Point of Discussion #3
Slightly related to #2 - how do you feel about characters being in character when they insult each other/people in general? I really, really dislike anyone, (but I guess it's mostly Nino in fics) insulting Jun wth "princess" or other words implying being a woman is offensive, weak or prissy (or other crap). My stance on this is much more vehement now than it was years ago, but we change, and this is just something I'm feeling really strongly about. I've even written things in Muses that irks me a bit now if I think about it too much. I'll give you the example in question:

In "A thousand years of poetry", Nino has taken a picture of Ohno holding his niece and he has sent it to Jun. Then this transpires:

“I demand to see the picture,” Aiba said over lunch the next day. “Jun-kun swears he spontaneously grew ovaries when he saw it.”

Sho choked on his food.

“Don’t kill Sho-chan,” Nino said. “And don’t be silly. Jun already has ovaries.”


It irks me - and it doesn't. Jun said it himself first - he spontaneously grew ovaries because that is the fantastic thing a female body is capable of - creating life. He means it in a "I really want a kid"-way. If he had ovaries, he'd have gotten pregnant from wishing and looking at that picture full of adorableness. Then, Nino implies that Jun already is a woman - which. Nino. Nino is tactless, we all are, but here it's me and I'm genuinely not trying to be too sensitive, but if I'd written it now, I might not have worded it like that. I'll continue being thoughtlessly tactless, but I'll try my best. No one called me out on the ovaries remark, though, I'm pretty sure it's just me reading too much into things. Again, subjectively. Also, it depends somewhat on how it's said. I guess I thought then that it was more of a fond, half-hearted jab that they all knew was bullshit anyway. I don't know. This might not irk me at all tomorrow. Or feel free to tell me I'm too sensitive. Normally I'd be all for "take a chill pill, we know, idiot", but I don't know. As long as I know that I am not implying that being a woman is offensive or wrong or anything like it, I'm sure I'll be fine with it.

Same goes for swear words - which words offend you? Fuck? I feel like fuck has been desensitized by now. Asshole? Would you rather the characters don't swear at all? Is it in character to swear? I swear like a sailor on a daily basis, I'm pretty difficult to offend with swear words.

Opinions?

And if people start telling me I contradict myself at times, I might have to fight very ardently to resist the urge of banging my head into a wall, I'm well aware that I don't always make sense, not even to myself. I try. And fuck up. But I try.

But, this leads me to ----

Point of discussion #4
Pet names

Admittedly, I am not much for too many endearments. Depending on the fandom, though. In Arashi fics, I will probably stav my eyes out with a dull spoon if they start calling each other "sweetheart", "honey" or anything like that, but perhaps that's because it's sort of built into the Japanese language and culture how intimacy is shown with how they use their given names and the suffixes? It doesn't feel right. I don't know, I've never been fond of it. I don't even know how to explain it without coming of as a) incredibly weird, b) an ass or c) both. I'm fine with it in other fandoms, i.e. Glee, but. I don't know. How do you guys feel about it?


...I think that's it. Rest assured I will be back to haunt you all with more questions. Also, thank you so much for you all humoring me the least time I went all ~*introspective*~ on you regarding comments and writing in correlation, it was fabulous and very enlightening, and I know I suck at commenting and replying :(

/hugs everyone ♥

Date: 2013-02-16 08:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eufry.livejournal.com
YAY FIRST FIRST I just wanted to be first okay.

I'll reply something I promise. Need to read first though xD

Date: 2013-02-16 08:31 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-02-16 08:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bulkyass.livejournal.com
Omg I have a lot of things to say, but I have to do something now, so later?

/hug

Date: 2013-02-16 08:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rikke-leonhart.livejournal.com
Please do! I'll be looking forward to it!

/clings ♥

Date: 2013-02-16 09:38 pm (UTC)
mmestrange: inkwell with quill (Default)
From: [personal profile] mmestrange
SEX

Condoms - I prefer reading it with condoms, for realism's sake. Accidents can happen with condoms too, if the writers are good and it can be used as character development in the plot or a means of dramatic irony. But I agree with you - if both partners are tested and are safe, then they can decide they don't need one because they trust each other. Besides, having one's anus full of semen can't be a good feeling. With a condom, at least, it's mostly in the rubber and can be disposed of, minimising the icky feeling for one's partner. Again, it depends how the writers write it and whether they want to factor it in. Oral sex with a condom can be amusing, if well written - flavoured condoms exist for a reason, as do body pens with edible ink. A lot of porn for women - the type you watch - feature sex with condoms and do show the process of putting on the condom as something positive, loving, respectful and part of the sex act. hardcore porn for men don't usually show that, at least I don't think so. I'm hazy on that as it's been a while since I've had to review material for the course on political philosophy, courtesans, whores and goddesses that i taught way back in 2005.


OOC
I am weird because I think all characterisations are to some extent ooc. why? because we don't really know what they're like in real life when they are not on tv. so long as the characterisation is compelling and realistic, i read it to watch the way characterisation unfolds, develops, grows, changes etc. as you will notice, my characterisations can be an odd mishmash between playing up stereotypes and getting into their heads. so while my nino is a stingy brat, he's also deeply cynical. but underneath all that, he can be a softie. he just hides it behind his words and his sharp tongue. my ohno looks spaced out and bewildered all the time, but he's the most introspective one, observing everything and internalising the things he sees, and making disjointed remarks because he has yet to make sense of his thoughts. my jun is equally sharp, but he's deeply caring and openly showing his thoughts and emotions. my sho is smart, but can be annoying, over zealous and subtly domineering. my aiba might appear to be an idiot, but he's actually wants to believe the best in everyone and sees the best in everyone. i may be off in my interpretation, but that's how i see them and that's how interpret the way they behave when they think the camera is not focused on them.

INSULTS
A little swearing is normal because people do swear. But i use swear words that i know, not those that I think are "cool". I don't use fuck a lot because I don't like it. i don't like it because i know the way it evolved from the Latin and Middle Ages German. I'm weird that way. By I do use "arse", as in "don't be an arse." It's mind enough and can be used affectionately - double entendre and a pun. And I may use insults on balls and manhood, but I don't think I used any woman related thing as an insult to Jun. I may have in the past. memory is shady there. but now, i know i don't. nothing i've recently written implies that. to me, Jun is secure enough in his masculinity - just look at how he carries himself and how comfortable he is in his own skin in recent years - that even if the insult was thrown at him, he would laugh at it and say he's just being in touch with his feminine side. he can say that now, like how womanish and whiny he sounded when he was 19-20 and laugh about it because he's feeling quite secure about his masculinity and his other manly qualities.

PET NAMES
In some cases, pet names and nicknames are fine, if they derive from the name of the person himself/herself, or if it's related to what the person is like. For example, words like "pup" is acceptable as a pet name, I personally find. but "sweetheart" and "darling" are not in a japanese context. i know some youngsters do use it - a few of them do , or so someone tells me. but if the characters in an arashi fic use it, i prefer it to be a mocking thing as part of the natural raillery. it won't be serious as it'll be a great joke. that's about it, i guess.

i should go to bed. my opera's finished and i'm tired.

Date: 2013-02-16 10:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rikke-leonhart.livejournal.com
Oh wow, so this entire comment has thrown me a bit for various reasons. Also, for personal reasons, do not assume you know which kind of porn I watch. Sounds silly, but I mean it. Your point about everyone being OOC to some xtent, yes, I do believe that's what I said when I said we don't know who they are. Regarding fuck - I'd be a little vary of saying how it originated from Latin, seeing as 'fuccant' is pseudo-Latin as best, but I guess the finer semantics and origin of that word from Low German or even Dutch can be argued to death. I suppose it makes more sense to me if it takes from "pungo", but I digress.

Date: 2013-02-16 10:31 pm (UTC)
mmestrange: inkwell with quill (Default)
From: [personal profile] mmestrange
Oh no, I was generalising about the type of porn and what I remember featured in them the last time I watched them, c. 2005 for that course I was teaching. When I wrote " lot of porn for women - the type you watch " in my comment above, I didn't mean "you" as in "rikke", but "you" as in people in general. So that part should be read/interpreted as "porn for women, as in porn that people watch as opposed to porn that people read". I didn't mean to imply it as the type of porn you personally watch. Some interpretive dissonance must have happened with the vague term "you", where you read as referring to your good self, while I use "you" a lot to refer to people / the hoi polloi in general. So, really, I didnt mean it to imply the type you personally prefer. If you think i did, i apologise. I was merely using the porn catering to women vs porn catering to men generalisation to highlight the difference between readers who read porn where condoms appear in the fic and readers who prefer it when a sex scene in a fic doesn't feature condoms. One group of people prefer it this way and another prefer it another way. Nothing more. now that that's then, let's move on.

as for all that about swear words, again, i'm working with generalisations because it's late and i'm too tired to be specific. if i was, you'd be getting a long comment in several parts and i don't think i'm up for that when i'm sleeepy and unable to sleep.
Edited Date: 2013-02-16 10:37 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-02-16 09:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nicefinalbeam.livejournal.com
#1 I don't write a lot of porn in fic, but I have in roleplaying. Usually (unless it's in a scenario where condoms wouldn't be around, as you mentioned), my RP partner and I will either have them use condoms at first and slowly get away from it - or sometimes they actually have conversations about it, OR recently they've been holding off until getting tested. I don't know whether that's realistic, to be perfectly honest, but it SHOULD be so I guess it makes us more comfortable.

I don't write a lot of het sex (only because my fandom is all guys LOL), but if I did I sure as hell would want it to be condoms and the pill and whatever else all the way. LOL. And if there hasn't been a test? Condoms for oral sex too. I think sometimes fic writers don't think to mention it for fear of ruining the mood? Which is silly, because all it really takes is a sentence, right?

#2 and #3

I think there is a scale of OOC and FC with RPF that stories should try to land in the middle of - not too far in either direction (even in AU fiction, in my opinion). OOC means completely out of character, whereas FC, in this case, would be fandom characterizations.

I feel like... people should be allowed to take liberties. It feels more comfortable to write them without worrying about everything being right on the nose for me, anyway, because then it's like a character and not as much speculation about what must be going on behind closed doors. However, there are certain behaviors and even vocabulary that feel wrong to me as a reader and take me out of the story.

Nino being a brat is a great example of this. Have we seen him be a "brat"? Yes. Sure! But if we assume it's ALL he is, then we're so far on the "FC" side of the spectrum that it's flat. He's just walking around being a brat, calling Jun princess - WHICH I HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM DO EVER. He has called Jun "King" which would work just as well. Just sayin'.

Nino and Jun fighting all the time in general is FC. When have we ever seen that? The Matsumiya pairing gets more "WE HATE EACH OTHER BUT LOVE EACH OTHER" stories than any of the others, and yet I rarely if ever see them do anything but tease with affection. If anything, they seem more like friends and a partnership! So, you know, those kinds of characterizations for the sake of ~tension~ bother me. That's a fan concept, not anything we've seen.

All I really want from an author, and what I try to do myself, is to aim for the middle. Like you said, there are certain stereotypes on the FC side that seem to stick and that makes for lazy writing. A little bit of extra thought can take a fic to the next level. Like, maybe Sho isn't a prude who's going to object to everything ever. Maybe Ohno is more mischievous than Nino sometimes. Maybe Aiba gets sad, maybe Jun is an awkward dater. They aren't one-dimensional, so while we shouldn't suddenly make Sho this unbelievable asshole who abuses all his friends (not very in character - that would be the OOC side of the spectrum), we can't assume he NEVER gets arrogant either. They're human!

I guess what I'm trying to say overall is that we shouldn't be afraid of identifying characteristics like Nino playing games or Ohno liking to fish, it would be odd and wrong if we ignored it, but writing a character nothing like them and slapping "he likes games" on top of it doesn't work either. Middle ground is your friend everyone! :D

#4

If people get creative with it? That's fun. Odd nicknames that come from inside jokes. Pet names that stem from the plot. Variations on their names (we've seen Jun be Matsujun and J and so on, so it's not like it's impossible). Something like that works nicely. Generic terms like dear, honey, sweetheart, etc. not so much.

I'm sure I've broken my own "rules" many times, both from lack of writing experience, or early on - lack of time in the fandom, etc. I never like to tell anyone that they should stop writing either. It IS supposed to be fun, even if I can type a looong paragraph on my general preferences. ♥



Date: 2013-02-16 10:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rikke-leonhart.livejournal.com
I agree with the tests! I've read that variation a lot, with the characters getting tested those two or three times with 6 months (or something) in between, and I like that, it's realistic and I do like my porn realistic ;) Having actual conversations about it in fics are severely neglected, I feel, sadly, because it's relevant. I know that most people just go "IT'S FICTION, CHILL" and I do enjoy the unrealistic PWP as much as the next person, but it's all about the premises. Also, true love really doesn't prevent STDs. just saying. Also, I don't really get how condoms can ruin the mood, but to each their own, I guess :D I don't write a lot of porn either, mostly because I'm all about the ~*feels*~, so I get you xD

I agree wholeheartedly with you. There are things that just feel wrong when reading or writing, things that I'm very convinced that they would never say or do, at least not in my versions of them, but know what you mean. I am all for artistic liberty as long as it falls into the (admittedly rather large) area I keep the characters in, and I, once again, agree with you. I think most of the active writing fandom tends to forget that they're actual humans with flaws and imperfections and a need to go to the bathroom every once in a while. Fandom also tends to forget subjectivity - I lurked on a writing meme some long months ago where people went crazy trying to pit authors against each other for being OC/OOC, it was scary and also mildly hilarious^^;; I'm morbidly fascinated.

You know what, I'm just going to say, I agree with you, and thank you for taking the time to answer, I really like hearing other people's thoughts on this!

Date: 2013-02-16 10:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nicefinalbeam.livejournal.com
I think the test scenario is awesome, but condoms work just fine - especially if it's a spur-of-the-moment hook-up kind of plot. However, as you mentioned, oral counts! Soooooo many fics I've read have done the blowjob first, sex with a condom after thing which is hilarious to me because I always go "what, you're worried about getting another man pregnant but not about STDs?" :D Or STI or whatever they are called now.

I like fluff fic. I'm a sucker for fluff. No porn necessary lol. Or hey! Even fade to black. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy a good NC-17. ;)

I have heard people say "WE DON'T KNOW THEM, SO THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS OOC" which is... in my opinion, a poor attitude to have. Because why not write original fiction then? There has to be something you've observed as a fan that makes you want to write fanfiction. Not to mention the fact that in this fandom we have had someone literally steal another person's story from an entirely different fandom and just put Sho and Jun's names into it with search and replace.

I'm happy to chat! ♥

Date: 2013-02-16 10:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] devil29bich.livejournal.com
I understand where you are coming from when you read a fic and prefer it to be realistic. I like both the AU and real world but don't we get enough of real world issues on the TV and in everyday life? I write fics and read them to escape the reality of this world too much unnecessary deaths and diseases. countries at war with each other for what ? The root of all evil POWER and MONEY! Reading fics of porn or not to porn and having pet names or insulting someones gender, it's the same as if we go to the movies. To see a slap stick comedy or a serious drama. Just like in real life some movies I do go see and some I pay to see. ( or download). So like fics if I don't care for a certain fic I pass it on. Like for me, I love Love LOVE Yama fics. I read others too all pairs but I stay away from Sakuraiba ones not that I don't like the pair, it's just that almost every fic that's out there is only Sakuraiba. Right up there with Ohmiya. But I'm not putting down other people work or hating on them. I just get tired of reading and seeing only two kinds of pairing when there can be so many others. Granted I have only written Yama but I only have 3 fics total I'm still new at this. I'm sure I'll write more, and probably different pairings but right now I'm writing where I'm comfortable.
So if the fics is not realistic or are condom or no I look at it like this it's from the minds of fans and its only to entertain people. If it was suppose to be real it would read Non-Fan Fiction and the guys wouldn't be but fucking each other. I don't think their all gay maybe bi but not fully gay on.
Well that's my 2 cents. It's only an opinion. We need more writers and not people who only sit in front of a TV or game console 24/7. Hell even Nino works or do other things with his life. So he earns to play games 80% of his life.
OK I'm done now. Maybe

Date: 2013-02-17 05:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rikke-leonhart.livejournal.com
I'm honestly not quite sure I understand what you're getting at, but if you're getting at I should just skip fics I don't like, then I already am, I don't really read Arashi fics anymore. For me, it doesn't have to do with escaping reality by reading and writing, I just like doing it, it's a therapeutic way for me to deal with everything as well as the fact that genuinely enjoy the process. And I'm not hating? I'm just sincerely raising the questions because I don't know how other people see it.

Date: 2013-02-17 04:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] i-am-zan.livejournal.com
Hmmm not being a prolific writier of porn or smut ... but I do read a lot ... I don't have a lot to say but I guess I'll add in my two cents. One of my early fandoms addressed the condoms and lube thing (in canon). It's always there peeking out of someone's wallet, or the lube is on the bedside table, or in the gym bag or their carry all ... so even if it isn't explicitly written into a scene, the use is implied and I probably have it in my head that even if it's not written into a scene by others, I have put it there in my head.

PWP, if it's short and sweet I think a little is ok. But too much and it just is boring
But ohhh well written smut, with build up and plot built around it ... yes I like a a slow burn.

Well with RPF there is no help but disclaim OOC-ness anyways, because yes truly we don't know them, who they are at their core and can only hope a good approximation and hopefully anything written is believable. Base on what we've seen/hear/read of them. One dimensional characterisation is just arrrrrrgh-iness ... my main sore point here being Aiba perpetually portrayed as an idiot. (this drives me nuts to no end) Maybe because I am a Scientist type, and I see glimmers of that physicist/chemist that lurks in him. 'Nuff said, I could go on for reams and reams here.

Hmmm insults. I think if it's something they've said to each other before, it's probably believable, it's also easy enough to extrapolate from those ones. Also with the fic I've read, (I'm a snob and have only read well written fic ^_^) If it fits the flow and storyline, then ... it's fic. It fits and flows. (It's you. And we like you ^_~)
As to RL, I don't truly know Japanese culture and their habits of insults. But the custom in some of our communities is if you really disliked or can't be bothered with someone, you really just don't. Bother with them at all. For us, we'd have to be really close and understand each other to really throw an insult. Yes sometimes it hurts, but mostly the truth does. Sometimes you insult someone you love because you want to tell them what you need to tell them and you don't really know any other way of doing so. Because sometime the language of love and friendship is weirdly wired that way. (I hope I am making sense).

As to swearing ... I'm afraid I come from and upbringing/culture that doesn't. And I swear very old fashionedly. Things like "Heavens gracious me". "Good grief", "Goodness gracious" that sort of thing. I am surrounded by the stronger words now of course there's no escaping it, either in fic or RL. It's just the way of the world I guess. I don't think I have ever used it in my writings.

Pet names, no. Just no. Am with you on this. (As most of my fandoms are from the Japanese too, but even with the more Western based ones ... also no - unless darling or sweetheart is used dripping with syrupy sarcasm. A little different with British ones, because terms like pet, petal, love, chuck, sweetheart are more commonplace and aare in general use for every one even strangers)

And I'd expect you'd get a truck load of comments, mostly heavy with content so you're totally forgiven with lots of love for not being able to reply to everyone.

Loves hugs n stuff and you are wonderful, don't you forget that! Only because I haven't saaid it in a while!

Date: 2013-02-17 07:24 am (UTC)
mmestrange: inkwell with quill (Default)
From: [personal profile] mmestrange
Butting in to say I agree with you on pet names in the dry British sense. I've always thought darling should be said in a low Morticia Addams like drawl and best saved for someone you're about to poison or betray or send to a horrible death. Or to be used in a jocular fashion.

Date: 2013-02-17 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] i-am-zan.livejournal.com
MWAH!!!! Hugs!

Date: 2013-02-17 07:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] carey-chan.livejournal.com
wow this is a lot but since I`m no writer I`ll stick to topic one..okay that sounds weird but let me tell you why I chose that topic. For one; I like my smut realistic as well and for two: I worked in a sexshop and know a lot of stuff related to this *haha*

I think most ppl are just don`t want to write about condoms because it 'slows down' the whole process or might even make this awkward (when they don`t find it or they have problems putting it on etc) .I really wonder why, cause they don`t care about lube in teh same aspekt. and THANK GOD, most writers finnaly understood that raw (anal-) sex is pain in the ass,literally. so why use lube and not condoms? because it`s more romantic? well it`s more messy,ne? I prefer reading smut without condoms too BUT it has to be in a scene with a couple who hase been together for a while (and know if they have something they should tell the other). If it`s a 'they suddenly did it in an alleyway after meeting in a club' scenario - condoms! definitly!

About the Blowjob-topic. Most ppl know about BJ`s through porn. and porn doesnt use condoms during BJ`s. I myself think its best this way too cause there`s no way you damage the condome (!!) and ..really..every condom is pre-lubed..if you suck it off..well you`l have salvia but the lube is gone *haha* as for ppl who don`t like giving head all that much or don`t like that taste (or just want to spice it up a bit) there are dozens of little cute bottles with flavors to buy for just a few euro in every sexshop! They even havefunny things like champagne or batida de coco, irish rum. One on my Costomer (that sound weird XD) told me she could do it all day if they use the flavor *haha* so yeah..that what I think about it..*cough*

Date: 2013-05-04 06:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twosen.livejournal.com
Just wanted to add my two cents as a reader because I've often wondered about these topics myself. I haven't really read any non-Arashi fanfic in a while, so my answers should most probably taken in that context. Apologies in advance for incoherence and a tendency to digress!


#1: Contraception
For me, the default should be with unless there's a specific reason to be without. Rule of thumb would be whatever seems realistic for the setting. I've always wondered how to gage what seems 'right' or 'realistic', actually. You could extrapolate from your own sex life but it's silly to presume that what holds true for you should hold true for your fictional couple as well, especially if you happen to be of the opposite gender and/or sexual orientation of your character(s) (not to mention isn't it a little too personal for comfort? Idk, maybe it's just me). Safe sex may seem like a no-brainer to some, but then again common sense is never that common.

One possible explanation for the lack of contraceptives in some fics may that it falls in the category of things like taking a dump or opening doors - it's understood that characters do these things, but it won't necessarily be mentioned every time they do it in the fic. Although I'd imagine that if the sex is described pretty minutely, a contraceptive should figure somewhere in there too. I'unno. Different strokes for different folks, I guess? For some, fandom is SRS BZNZ. For others, fandom is just a bit of fun, who cares if it's not researched or cited or sorted, right? (And that is exactly the section of fandom I try to steer clear of.)


#2: OOC
Ah, RPF/RPS! Back in the day when I used to be in manga/book fandoms, it felt kinda wrong to me. Think about how weird it'd be to write a story about people you know - like your grandparents or your best friends - having sex. How on earth could you write about real people you'd never actually met?

Fast forward to Arashi fandom and.. I still find it weird sometimes and have to be in a certain mood before I can read fic/pr0n. How do I best like the boys as characters? Not too far removed from what we know. I'm not really a huge fan of outright "yeah, it's common knowledge that X sleeps with Y" or that "Arashi all sleep with each other like it's a game of musical chairs" scenario.

It's not that I'm a prude or unimaginative. It's just that I enjoy fic best when the OOC-ness is logically translatable. For example, if Sho was cast into a AU Tarzan-esque role where he was brought up in the wild by animals, I'd be willing to accept that he wouldn't gibber in terror whenever he saw a snake. I can accept that he'd be drastically different from the Sho we think we know because he wouldn't have been brought up by educated public figures; he wouldn't be 'Arashi' in any sense we recognise and he wouldn't speak any human language, let alone rap - but all of this needs to be believably justified to the reader. That's when it starts to toe the line of crack though - the backdrop he's been set in is too wildly different for me to know what to identify as 'Sho' anymore. The author could just as well replace Sho with another name and pass it off as original fiction.

I guess I view Arashi through Japanese-tinted glasses. I can't explain it exactly, but they only really feel IC to me when they're speaking in Japanese and behaving in a culturally Japanese way. When I mentioned Sho just now, I mentally added '-kun' because it doesn't feel right without, though it looks too fangirl-Japanese in English. My most IC Arashi dreams are also the ones where I remember the dialogue being in Japanese, and not just because "oh hark Japanese it must be real Arashi!!one!".

That doesn't mean that any fanfic written in Japanese automatically isn't OOC. I was curious once and googled up some Japanese fanfic and after a horrific but morbidly fascinating couple of hours, I kinda wanted to gouge my eyes out with a rusty nail.

Date: 2013-05-04 06:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twosen.livejournal.com
[cont'd because I actually went over the comment character limit... >__<]


#3: In-character insults
So relevant. I'm not okay with the suggestion that being female/feminine is somehow insulting. While Arashi actually are chauvinist/sexist due to their societal norms (not saying that makes it okay), they have never (to my knowledge, though I'll happily stand corrected if someone wants to point me to some evidence) insulted each other, much less Jun, by using terms like 'princess' or 'prissy'.

Interestingly enough, in your example, the issue I have isn't that Nino would imply that Jun is like a woman because Nino does tend to toss out some fairly caustic and politically incorrect tsukkomis sometimes (although I personally think Sho is champion of snark when it comes to silly guests). Nino does talk a lot of bull most of the time.

I'm having more trouble stomaching the fact that Jun would use a phrase like "I spontaneously grew ovaries" over a picture. As a reader, I'm happy to go with the flow and enjoy the sentiment you're portraying there, but at the same time I also can't help but hear some Valley girl going, "Ohhh. Mai. Gaahd. I swear, I spontaneously grew ovaries when I saw it." (I understand though - Jun has mentioned "wanting children" various times before after various cute baby/children/motherhood incidents, though I've always taken it as him wanting to be a dad someday rather than a mom.)

I'm not really offended by any swear words, though I'm not particularly impressed by words which imply that being homosexual or female or {insert non-privileged group of choice} is derogatory. Excessive/repetitive swear words kinda makes the character sound limited/uneducated though, so unless that's what you're going for, use sparingly.


#4: Pet names
Completely with you on this one. British fandoms, fine, but pet names (other than canon ones like 'Mattsun' or 'Aibashi') don't belong in Arashi fics, as far as I'm concerned. I don't care if Arashi have just had the most mindblowing orgy in the universe; that's still not going to make them automagically start referring to each other or their male/female partners as "sweetheart" or "honey". It comes off as being both OOC and insulting. Even stuff like 'Neener'. Again with the Japanese-tinted glasses effect. There are already so many nuances with suffixes and casual slips of 'Satoshi-kun' (as opposed to 'Ohno-kun') and so on going on already that I get the warm fuzzies every time I notice stuff like that happen in vids/radio. Using stuff like 'dear' or 'darling' is unnecessary. It makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.



...Um. Yeah. As I said. Stalking, and I will ramble whether you like it or not. I enjoyed reading your take on those topics and felt compelled to discuss. Sorry for the uber long comment. Feel free to respond or ignore as you see fit!

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